Comments on: Unfiltered Vol. V: Proposition 8 is California’s Brand of Hater-ade http://www.thelegalline.net/2009/05/26/unfiltered-vol-v-proposition-8-is-californias-brand-of-hater-ade/ Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:41:23 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: THE LEGAL LINE » This Ones For You Boswell: Hate Crimes http://www.thelegalline.net/2009/05/26/unfiltered-vol-v-proposition-8-is-californias-brand-of-hater-ade/comment-page-1/#comment-100 THE LEGAL LINE » This Ones For You Boswell: Hate Crimes Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:31:32 +0000 http://www.thelegalline.net/?p=923#comment-100 [...] a previous post, commentor ‘Jeff Boswell’ made the good point that in the realm of issues invovling [...] [...] a previous post, commentor ‘Jeff Boswell’ made the good point that in the realm of issues invovling [...]

]]> By: JB [TLL] http://www.thelegalline.net/2009/05/26/unfiltered-vol-v-proposition-8-is-californias-brand-of-hater-ade/comment-page-1/#comment-97 JB [TLL] Thu, 28 May 2009 01:22:26 +0000 http://www.thelegalline.net/?p=923#comment-97 Mr. Boswell, I think you missed my point. But to respond, no I'm not gay but I do have friends and family that are. The point is that denying a right (and marriage at the moment is a right shrouded under the guise of religious fervor) to any group is wrong. I do agree that there are other more important problems and issues regarding gay rights, and I think you are trying to get at basic everyday issues such as the hate crimes you mention that go on "day after day." But just because something is a lightning rod does NOT mean it isn't an important issue. And as a human, "marriage", unions, partnerships or however you want to label a relationship with another human being, is part of our fundamental nature. In the US, that relationship is known as marriage, and it is only natural for people to want to be able to enter that union without any stigma or differences attached. While I personally do agree that marriage is simply a word, to some people (gays included) that word is just as important as it is to heterosexuals. Why should couple A be forced to enter a civil union while couple B is allowed to enter the "holy matrimony of marriage"? And why is the only dividing line between A and B their sexuality. That is denial of a right afforded to one group over another, plain and simple. And that Mr. Boswell is wrong.<br><br>You note that "gays still keep getting persecuted...across this country and all we talk about is whether they can get married." Denial of the right to get married is an acute form of persecution. You also mention hate crimes and from what I gather, that is what you deem the most important issue regarding gays, and I wouldn't disagree. Hate crimes (against ANY group, not just gays) are horrible and I am ashamed to consider myself part of the same species as anyone who ever committed one. I don't know what hate crime you are referring to in Mass., and I do not have any statistics on the frequency of such crimes in that state, my state, or the nation. The problem is that such crimes don't appear to happen as often as the frequency of people getting married, and so one ends up naturally becoming a larger issue. That is not to say that it isn't more important (people getting beaten or killed for who they are is obviously more important than marriage), but one problem is capable of being solved (gay marriage) while the other that you mention (hate-crimes) is hardly preventable. If a person intends to commit a hate-crime, then most likely they are going to be able to commit it (barring extraordinary police work). <br><br>Of course, you are welcome to your opinion that gay marriage is a non-issue, or at least unimportant in comparison to the things you mentioned. I welcome the discussion. Thanks for reading. Mr. Boswell, I think you missed my point. But to respond, no I'm not gay but I do have friends and family that are. The point is that denying a right (and marriage at the moment is a right shrouded under the guise of religious fervor) to any group is wrong. I do agree that there are other more important problems and issues regarding gay rights, and I think you are trying to get at basic everyday issues such as the hate crimes you mention that go on “day after day.” But just because something is a lightning rod does NOT mean it isn't an important issue. And as a human, “marriage”, unions, partnerships or however you want to label a relationship with another human being, is part of our fundamental nature. In the US, that relationship is known as marriage, and it is only natural for people to want to be able to enter that union without any stigma or differences attached. While I personally do agree that marriage is simply a word, to some people (gays included) that word is just as important as it is to heterosexuals. Why should couple A be forced to enter a civil union while couple B is allowed to enter the “holy matrimony of marriage”? And why is the only dividing line between A and B their sexuality. That is denial of a right afforded to one group over another, plain and simple. And that Mr. Boswell is wrong.

You note that “gays still keep getting persecuted…across this country and all we talk about is whether they can get married.” Denial of the right to get married is an acute form of persecution. You also mention hate crimes and from what I gather, that is what you deem the most important issue regarding gays, and I wouldn't disagree. Hate crimes (against ANY group, not just gays) are horrible and I am ashamed to consider myself part of the same species as anyone who ever committed one. I don't know what hate crime you are referring to in Mass., and I do not have any statistics on the frequency of such crimes in that state, my state, or the nation. The problem is that such crimes don't appear to happen as often as the frequency of people getting married, and so one ends up naturally becoming a larger issue. That is not to say that it isn't more important (people getting beaten or killed for who they are is obviously more important than marriage), but one problem is capable of being solved (gay marriage) while the other that you mention (hate-crimes) is hardly preventable. If a person intends to commit a hate-crime, then most likely they are going to be able to commit it (barring extraordinary police work).

Of course, you are welcome to your opinion that gay marriage is a non-issue, or at least unimportant in comparison to the things you mentioned. I welcome the discussion. Thanks for reading.

]]> By: Jeff Boswell http://www.thelegalline.net/2009/05/26/unfiltered-vol-v-proposition-8-is-californias-brand-of-hater-ade/comment-page-1/#comment-94 Jeff Boswell Wed, 27 May 2009 21:32:19 +0000 http://www.thelegalline.net/?p=923#comment-94 Look I don't believe marriage is holy and I'm not gay (so you may have better insight than I into how they generally feel) but I think this story is overhyped. The straight conservatives want to keep their word, so let them. Who cares? What is important is that every person and coupling has equal rights and not what it is called. Instead shouldn't we be focusing on the hate-crimes that go on against homosexuals day after day? Like the one in Provincetown, Mass. yesterday. Polls repeatedly show that people favor expanding hate crime legislation but not "gay marriage." Why arent we talking about doing what we can get done?<br><br>To me gay marriage is the latest in a series of gay issues that have dominated the MSM during my life: 1. AIDS & gays. 2. Gays and the military 3. a Constitutional Amendment banning gay marriage and now 4. Gay marriage. All of these stories were/are lightening rods for both liberals and conservatives and they were all bs. They don't deal with what is really important. Gays still keep getting persecuted and terrorized across this country and all we talk about is whether they can get married. Ridiculous. Look I don't believe marriage is holy and I'm not gay (so you may have better insight than I into how they generally feel) but I think this story is overhyped. The straight conservatives want to keep their word, so let them. Who cares? What is important is that every person and coupling has equal rights and not what it is called. Instead shouldn't we be focusing on the hate-crimes that go on against homosexuals day after day? Like the one in Provincetown, Mass. yesterday. Polls repeatedly show that people favor expanding hate crime legislation but not “gay marriage.” Why arent we talking about doing what we can get done?

To me gay marriage is the latest in a series of gay issues that have dominated the MSM during my life: 1. AIDS & gays. 2. Gays and the military 3. a Constitutional Amendment banning gay marriage and now 4. Gay marriage. All of these stories were/are lightening rods for both liberals and conservatives and they were all bs. They don't deal with what is really important. Gays still keep getting persecuted and terrorized across this country and all we talk about is whether they can get married. Ridiculous.

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